Weezerpedia interview with Karl Koch - October 7, 2008
On October 7, 2008, Weezerpedia admin and co-founder OhJonas conducted an audio interview with Weezer archivist and roadie Karl Koch. It took place in Salt Lake City, Utah, prior to a concert on the same day during the Troublemaker Tour. It was published on Apple Podcasts as the first (and only) episode of the official Weezerpedia podcast on October 10.
| Podcast interview with Karl Koch | |
|---|---|
| Publication | Weezerpedia |
| Published | October 10, 2008 |
| Interviewer | OhJonas |
| Interviewee | Karl Koch |
| Title | Weezerpedia Karl Koch Interview, 10/7/08 in SLC, Utah |
| Format | Podcast |
| Associated concert | Weezer concert: 10/07/2008 |
| External link | Apple Podcasts |
| References | See where this article is referenced on Weezerpedia |
Transcript
OhJonas: So, let's see.
Karl: Yo, yo.
OhJonas: Hi, here we go.
OhJonas: Okay. So, first question's about the past, so I'll start with Blue.
Karl: Okay.
OhJonas: How did your parents feel about you moving to LA?
Karl: I had a mixed bag. My mom's always been very supportive. My dad was very skeptical. I think he just assumed I'd come back after a little while. So, we didn't communicate very well about that move at the time. And it wasn't until a lot later that he saw that I was earning some money, that he was okay with it.
OhJonas: Was it a tough choice for you, or was it something you just knew you were going to do?
Karl: Well, I didn't know anything about the... There was no band at that time. There was none of the music. I was moving out because my buddy, Pat Finn, basically said, “You should move out here. There's a lot of cool stuff going on.” And I had just finished art school, and I didn't really have a plan. I didn't want to stay in Baltimore where I'd gone to school. So, I was like, “Yeah, I'll go out there. It'll be fun.” At the time, I didn't know... I barely knew Pat Wilson. I didn't know any of the other guys at all yet. And through Pat Finn, I met everybody. And they didn't become Weezer for another eight months after I moved out there.
OhJonas: So, it was 1991?
Karl: Yeah, Yeah.
OhJonas: Are you still in touch with Pat Finn?
Karl: Oh, yeah.
OhJonas: Is he still in LA?
Karl: No, he's in Portland, Oregon. I'm actually going to see him...
OhJonas: Is he still the organic mechanic?
Karl: Well, he's... They don't call it that anymore. He's going to call it... This is great. He's going to call it The Gays, but it's spelled G-A-Z-E.
OhJonas: That's awesome.
Karl: And it's basically him and his original drummer, Talbot, who's a producer guy. And they don't really have any other band members right now. So, they're just recording an album. And I don't know if they're going to actually have a band or not. It's just going to be... They're making an album.
OhJonas: That's awesome.
Karl: Yeah, It's good music.
Karl: My earliest impression of Matt was really negative, because he, at the time, lived in Northern California, and he'd come down for a visit for a couple of days, and he stayed at our apartment. And he... Oh, no, no, no. I had an earlier impression of him. This is hilarious. The contrast is hilarious. Okay, my first impression of him was I'd come out to visit LA in January of 90, I think. Or January 91 or 90. I can't remember which. No, January 91. And him and Pat and Rivers had just moved in together in this place in LA. And Matt was...
OhJonas: Was that Amherst?
Karl: No, no, this was before Amherst. It was this other place. And Matt was in this super depressed phase. So, all he did is, he wore black turtlenecks. He had these little round glasses, which I guess he still kind of has. And his hair is kind of like up, you know? Like, kind of like a little more like New Wave. And he would sit. They didn't have any furniture at this apartment, because they couldn't afford it. It was a nice apartment, but they couldn't afford anything. They had no refrigerator, no stove. So he'd sit on lawn furniture, like those fold-out, like soft bendy chairs, and watch Woody Allen films on his little TV. And there was nothing else in the whole living room. And I just remember going in and out with the two Pats and screwing around. And every time it was just Matt like this. Watch. I was like, “What's up with him?” He was like, well, you know. And then years later, when he came to our apartment on Stoner from Northern California, he was completely plastered. And it was like three in the morning, and he kept like, come barging into our bedroom and waking us up and like tripping over things and knocking things over. And I was just like, “What's wrong with this guy?” And it wasn't until like later that I actually got to know him and understood that, you know, he was cool. But he just, you know, he expressed himself very strangely back then. Who's the other person that was?
OhJonas: Rivers.
Karl: My first impression of him was at that previous apartment for him and Matt. And he was just moving in when I was visiting there. And he was literally just moving into that place from somewhere else. Like his whole thing with his old kind of metal bands had just kind of fallen apart at that point. So he was kind of like reorganizing his life. And he had the long hair, no glasses. And he was just like, literally like boxes were coming in. He was carrying boxes in and setting them up in the bedroom. And I remember like maybe the next day, he was playing some of his demos. And at the time, his demos were so early on, like he'd only written a few on his own that were like songs. And he played, he had a song called Christmas in L.A., which was, he wrote for the Christmas of 1990. Because he was like alone and lonely in L.A. and there's nothing going on. And then he had this song called The Bushman, which was like based on this sample of some drum beat. I can't remember what it was. It was just like this super aggressive, like, it was a really cool song actually. And I remember those, those are the songs he played. He didn't really have anything even remotely like Weezer at all back then. It was either like kind of almost funky kind of angry stuff or jokey songs. Like those were the two things he was doing at the time.
OhJonas: Yeah. Out of all the early Weezer, 60 Wrong Sausages material, songs like I Can't Forget the Way and Spiderbitch and Mega Man, The Biggest Animal, which one when they were first starting out were you really into? What was your favorite?
Karl: Well the earliest stuff was actually leftover stuff from Pat Wilson and Rivers Band called Fuzz. And that was like The Biggest Animal and there was like five or six songs. And I thought those were amazing. I mean they were so, it was like kind of like, it was almost like the Jane's Addiction kind of territory. But like, and that was cool back then. I mean those guys were rad. And so I was really impressed with that. But obviously that had nothing to do with how things ended up being. But it was, I dug that stuff. And I always dug, and Pat's song Mega Man I've always loved. He originally did an instrumental of it at our apartment on Stoner. He did it on a four track. And I remember him emerging from a bedroom, one of our two bedrooms, with this big smile on his face. He's like, “You gotta check this out.” And of course it was just like this distorted drum beat from an HR 16 drum machine. And like a little quick bass line and just like two guitar parts that had these crazy like rotary flange effects on them. And it was like the coolest song ever. And we were all like, “Yeah!” And he's like, “What's it called?” And he's like, “Mega Man!”. But there was no lyrics at that time. And later, they did their demo, he did a version with lyrics, which was also good. But I remember being super stoked on that. But all the Rivers songs, Biggest Animal, I can't remember the name, like Burn Your Bridges won. I Will Not Cross Over, they're just huge.
OhJonas: Were they in the vein of The Answer Man?
Karl: Yeah, they're all like, they're just, I don't even think The Answer Man is the best song. It's just the one that's the most in your face aggressive. But they're all cool.
OhJonas: Was this before they got into Nirvana?
Karl: Yeah, those songs existed before, well, I think Rivers was aware of Nirvana because he got into, what do you call it? Sliver. And it was actually before I was even aware of what Sliver was. Because I remember being in college in like, 89, 90, 91. And we were like, oh, Mud Honey, all these sub-pop bands. But Nirvana was just another sub-pop band, like Tad. We were more concerned with Tad and Mud Honey than Nirvana because who the hell knew what Nirvana was? But by, obviously, when Nevermind came out, it was like, “Oh shit”, everybody stood up and took notice. It was like, “Wait a minute, now we see what's going on.” But up until that point, it was more like, I don't know if anything Nirvana influenced those songs. It might have, but I don't hear it in there. I hear more of him trying to retain that kind of like, almost like, because back then it wasn't Jane’s addiction or the Chili Peppers, it was nothing. Those were such huge forces out there, you know? And I think everybody kind of had that like, “Yeah man, we can kind of be funky, we can kind of have those kind of beats.” And I think there was some of that influence in there. At least I'm guessing. Because I don't think Rivers thought he could sing back then. Like, he hadn't found that great voice he has, he was kind of like straining it more
OhJonas: It's that airy voice.
Karl: Yeah, yeah, he was straining it more, so it was more suited to make these kind of aggressive, metal-y kind of songs. And I guess Sliver would fit right in, except for the songwriting must have influenced him more in a pop direction, I would think.
Karl: I always assumed that Pixies was before Nirvana. But it was about simultaneous. It was kind of like this realization of, “Wait a minute, this is the sound. These guys have it right.” And that was like... I just remember when they were like, him and Pat were first sitting down and trying to come up with 50 songs. It was late 91. I remember they were trying to do something like “Man, lets try to do something like Debaser, lets try to do something like that. Like can we do that kind of thing.”
OhJonas: That would be a sick one to cover.
Karl: Yeah, Pat was talking about it. He had a list of Pixies songs, and it was just a matter of, “Can we get it together and do it?”
OhJonas: It's a tough one, the drums are...
Karl: Well, there's a lot of toughs. And that's the thing, if Pat's singing and playing guitar, who's playing drums? Rivers is a good drummer, but there's certain songs that are tough. And tough to get it right. So there's always like a... they're always strategizing. Pat's thinking about changing up his cover now. And he's got some cool ideas.
OhJonas: Do you have a memory that is your favorite, your fondest memory from before the band was signed? Sticks out more than anything else?
Karl: Probably that goofy ass three show tour we did in my truck with the trailer that had no top, so we had to have a tarp over the gear. U-Haul ran out of the ones with the top. We went up to San Jose and Eureka and Gurnville and did that outdoor party. It was real ghetto.
Karl: Yeah, we filmed that whole show, but that was the only one I used for that.
OhJonas: That stuff's gotta get out there.
Karl: I think that was the most... because there's this incredible sense of camaraderie and no idea what the hell we were doing. It was just total by the seat of your pants. It was really funny. I had to probably single that out as the funniest. And also, I remember on the ride back down in my car, we were an hour from LA that night, coming back from wherever, San Francisco. And I remember Rivers pulling out a cassette and saying, “What do you guys think of this?” And it was No One Else's demo. And he had never played it for anybody before. And it was like, “This is a different direction.”
OhJonas: I've got a question right here. But before that, some of the names that you said Weezer was considering, like the Big Johns and This Niblet. Was there one that you thought was the best name to go with?
Karl: Not really. I thought they were all kind of funny, but there's like Meathead and all these funny names. I remember Pat saying This Niblet for the first time and me going, “Okay, that's clever, but it's kind of bizarre.” There was something like the Big Leafy Green, something around the machine. There's all these funny names. It's kind of like Jason was the influence on those, because he always was into that down home country.
OhJonas: Like Grand Groove Junction?
Karl: Yeah, the Brotherhood Groove Junction.
OhJonas: The first song that Weezer recorded and then played live was I Can't Forget the Way. Do you think that stands out among the early material? Do you think that's ever something the band would consider?
Karl: I always thought that was a cool song. A lot of the early songs I thought were really cool.
OhJonas: Was that kind of a soft one or a rocking one?
Karl: It was pretty rockin'. Actually, it was really rocking. That one and like Colmusheen and a couple others back then, they were like rockin' tunes. I mean, they were like aggressive. I call them like a bridge between that kind of Fuzz material, like The Answer Man kind of material, and what we call early Weezer, like the Jonases and the Undones and stuff like that. Because it was definitely pop and melodic, but it was pretty heavy. They'd record it in these ways where they'd intentionally distort the trim on the 8-track so you'd get more distortion and stuff. I would hope people would hear that someday. It's a cool song.
OhJonas: What do you think is better, Rivers’ version of Don't Worry Baby or Rivers’ version of Surfer Girl?
Karl: I don't know how to rate them. I like them both. Probably Don't Worry Baby just because I like that song a little bit more. “Well, it's been building-” Yeah, it's cool.
OhJonas: What was it like at the Amherst house when everything was official and they were signed?
Karl: Dude, it was chaos. People were throwing couches out of windows and stuff.
OhJonas: Did you have everyone over that you knew?
Karl: I just remember this insane party. It was just goofy. Todd, our A&R guy came over and it was like this celebration. It was just nuts. But that paled in comparison to the Going Away party when they actually went- The night before we went to New York.
OhJonas: Destroyed the toilet.
Karl: All that stuff, yeah. It was jubilant, man. People were just freaking out.
OhJonas: How were you allowed to fly out to New York? Did Geffen pay for you?
Karl: Yeah, I was sort of hired on as part of the record budget at that point. The band didn't have any business. They hadn't even set up a business agreement so it's not like they could even hire me officially. So it was like a Geffen thing. I think it was like, “We need Karl. We can fit that in the budget.”
OhJonas: That's awesome. Okay, so Pinkerton. Were you kind of upset when you saw Songs From the Black Hole changing into Pinkerton? Or were you...
Karl: Well, it wasn't so much upset. It was like taking me off guard because I would be out of the picture for three, four months at a time. Then I'd come back and all of a sudden it was like, “Oh, there's all these new songs being rehearsed.”. I'm sure it was taking the other guys off guard too, but they had to play them so they didn't- What are you going to do? I was like, “Okay, here's the songs.” In a sense it was kind of a relief because I was always skeptical that it could be pulled off. Today I know they could pull it off. They have the stagecraft. They have the clout to say, “Can we get in three people to do this? Can we get two of these things to happen? Can we get one of these things to happen?” There's a much more professional... At the time it was like, “Here's our amps, here's our guitars, and we go on stage at CBGB.” How are you going to pull off what you want to do here? You've got to have guest vocalists. Matt was talking about these special stage props where you go up and this light would shine down and all this crazy shit would happen. I was like, “It's rad.” but I just had a sense in my gut that this isn't going to work. Not today anyway. I never said anything. I was just like, “It's cool and I love the music, but I wonder how they're going to do that. Is this really going to go down?” So when it did change, my only surprise was what it changed into. I was like, “Oh, where did this come from? This whole Japanese thing.” He showed me the letter and all that stuff that inspired Across the Sea and how everything started changing. He was going to Harvard that semester. A lot of that stuff had to do with people he met at Harvard, his leg. The Good Life was all about walking around Harvard Square in the snow with a cane and a beard. Nobody knew him or anything. I always thought, “Well if you shaved your beard, they would recognize you.”
OhJonas: I think he wanted it. That's where the inspiration comes from.
Karl: It was almost like, “I'm in enough pain right now. Let's just make it worse. Now I'm really writing some songs!” That's the Weezer way.
OhJonas: When you listen to Superfriend, what version do you consider definitive? Is it the one that we got on Alone?
Karl: I think. I can't remember what versions there are.
OhJonas: The one on Alone is about three minutes, 30 seconds. Kind of a soft intro and outro.
Karl: Right, right, right. He may have done- That may have been one of the things where he edited it to make it the way he wanted it to be.
OhJonas: Did he do that with Dude, We're Finally Landing too? Because there was some clipping in there.
Karl: Yeah, there were some things where he was like, “I've always liked this, but I've always hated this problem and I want to fix it.” So he said, “Well, since I'm putting it out, take it to the lab and make it fixed.” Now I don't remember offhand, which is embarrassing, the differences in Superfriend. I may have to take a pass on that question because I don't really remember offhand the differences. When I fell in love with the song, it was the first time I heard it. It was a demo he had made. I'm assuming in Connecticut that winner in 1994 or 1995 or whatever that was. I think that was, for a while, that was the only version I knew about. I think there was a reprise or something he did or something like that.
OhJonas: Is that song still your favorite or is it just the nostalgia that keeps it your favorite?
Karl: It's in my favorites. I've always thought that was a really neat song.
OhJonas: Do you have a recorded version of it? Because you said that one time the band did it with Rachel on a soundtrack.
Karl: Yeah, there's no recording of that. It's sad because we had so many AV failures in the early days. My video camera crapped out somewhere in 1994 and we didn't get another one until Todd, the A&R guy, lent me his. So for a while there was a gap of no videotape. But then I remember a bus driver taking some video. Did you ever see the footage from Toms River, New Jersey? It's an outdoor festival kind of thing. It's 1994. That was from the bus driver's footage. Nobody ever knew that existed until he said, “Do you want to copy my tape?” And I'm like, “Yeah!“ And that was considered lost forever.
OhJonas: That's killer.
Karl: But anyway, what was I saying? What was I saying?
OhJonas: All the AV failures?
Karl: Oh yeah, and then my camera. I had so many camera problems that there was almost no photos from back then. It's just really a shame. I went to four cameras that kept breaking on me. But anyway, when they did those sound checks I don't think anything got recorded, audio or video. It's a shame.
OhJonas: Hypothetically speaking, if Rivers did get the Homie album released, do you think that that would have been the end of Weezer?
Karl: No, I don't think so. I think he considered it a pet project. He was excited about it, but it wasn't like, “This is my new direction in life.”
OhJonas: So he wasn't- Was he determined to get it released or was it just “Whatever happens happens”?
Karl: Well, I think if he was determined to get it released, it would have been released, in my opinion.
OhJonas: Can you remember what it was like when you guys recorded American Girls? Cuz, hadn't Matt already left the band?
Karl: No, he hadn't left yet. I wasn't there for that session. I don't even remember where it was.
OhJonas: Some place in Boston
Karl: But it had happened and I’d found out about it after the fact. And so by the time I'd found out about it, there was all this talk about it, like y’know “We think Matt’s leaving.” And then, back then, since there was no day-to-day updating and no website that really knew what was going on, by the time I put out a Weezine that talked about Matt leaving, it was also announcing this homie thing. And it seemed confusing, like, “Well, how is it that he's part of that if he's gone?” But that's because it happened four months earlier. I think it was the last thing they collaborated on. Because they both happened to be in New York City. I think they did it in New York for some reason.
OhJonas: Really?
Karl: I think Rivers had been in Connecticut or Harvard or something. I don't remember exactly now. But basically a lot of people invited down to help out, the guys from Cake and stuff like that. They had a good time.
OhJonas: Do you have a favorite homie song?
Karl: Um... I really like the uh- The Lover in the Snow. I think I got a new appreciation for it when I was cutting the video together. I like them all though. They're all cool.
OhJonas: At that time, cuz after that they went back to record, what direction did you see the third album taking at that time?
Karl: I didn't have anything to go on. All the demos that had happened, once they got back together that summer, I didn't hear any of that stuff. They didn't even send it to the manager. Nobody knew what they were doing in there. And I found out, all that stuff I found out about later after the fact in 2000, once we were back together, and Rivers was starting to show me his stacks of demos and lists of stuff. I was like, “Whoa, there's all kinds of stuff here.” But at the time, all I ever knew about was, I talked on the phone with Pat Wilson a few times and he'd tell me a little bit about what was going on. He was like, “Yeah man, it's pretty heavy. There's a couple cool songs. I don't know. I'm not into it too much. It's kind of weird.” But it was like these flashes of brilliance. It was like, “Oh man, this song is great.” And then next week, “Oh yeah, we're not doing that anymore.” “Why?“
OhJonas: Is that what happened with Prettiest Girl?
Karl: I don't know what happened. I think Rivers never felt that he finished it. And he thought it was missing a part, which I guess technically it is. And so he shelved it just because he didn't feel it was done. And that happens to a lot of songs that people think are great. Like, you know, he might do finish it, but he didn't.
OhJonas: Yeah. Smile.
OhJonas: Okay, so my favorite is Make Believe. I get some heat for that.
Karl: That's cool. No, that's cool. There's some good shit on there, (???).
OhJonas: What's the best song to not make Make Believe, in your opinion?
Karl: Oh, um...
OhJonas: Because there's all those fallen soldiers.
Karl: Oh, right, right.
OhJonas: They've gotten to the point where it's on par with Homie, with the fans.
Karl: Yeah. Some of those I personally don't like that much because I didn't feel they were given the right treatment. Like, there were songs that I really liked, and then by the time they were getting almost finished with it, I thought, “Something's not right to me.” Which is kind of what happened to some of the Green Album stuff. Like, it felt like it got too stiff or whatever by the time he finished it. Like, Love is the Answer early on was awesome. Now, maybe there's that version waiting to be picked up and finished up. I don't know. But the one that they were close to finishing, personally, I was like, “This isn't as epic as I remember it being.” Like, something got pulled back out of it. Like, it went to the brink and came back.
OhJonas: Was it some dynamic or something?
Karl: Yeah, just some feel about it. Now, I'm not saying that's how anybody else might hear it or see it. It's just me, you emotionally get into something when you hear it, and then when you start hearing things change, you start going, “Well, I don't know if I like that.”
OhJonas: Do you feel that often? Cuz Weezer songs, they’re just reworked a ton.
Karl: Yeah, it's happened a bunch over the time. It's actually better for me to not hear stuff until it's almost ready. Because then I have a better opinion about it. A better objective opinion.
OhJonas: Is there anything that you thought should have been on Make Believe that wasn't, or for the most part, do you think the album is exactly the way it should have been?
Karl: Some songs just didn't turn out the way I wish they had. Early on, My Best Friend was really cool, and I can't explain why. And that also goes for the one, whatchamacallit, uh.
OhJonas: Drugs?
Karl: Pardon Me.
OhJonas: Pardon Me?
Karl: Yeah. And even Drugs. Back when they were doing it acoustically, I thought that was the coolest song. It never occurred to me it might be seen as too repetitive or whatever you want to call it. It didn't feel that way to me back then. And as far as ones that didn't make it, my major feeling about that is, basically, if Love Is the Answer was on there, but the way I remember hearing it originally, and I really liked Our Last Chance. Those two songs in particular I thought were really cool. The other ones, there's a couple that actually went too far in a...
OhJonas: Just quirky?
Karl: Just like… This one almost sounds like disco, this one almost sounds exactly like The Beatles. There was just thing that-
OhJonas: I remember you said one of them was Paperback Writer?
Karl: It almost was. I was like, “This isn't…” I was glad that wasn't on there. Because people would have said, “What the hell.” Even though it was cool. But it was like, “What the hell, why did you do that?”, Yeah.
OhJonas: Okay, so that's the past. This is now.
Karl: This is now. This is now!
OhJonas: What era of Weezer holds the fondest memories for you?
Karl: I don't know, I get nostalgic about everything. Even stuff that I hated at the time. I remember feeling oddly nostalgic for 2000, a couple years ago. And at the time it felt like everything was different and weird and like, wow, it's not like it used to be. Everything is all crazy. But looking back, those were some fun times. All the times with Mikey and stuff, there was some pretty hilarious stuff that went down. And that wasn't that long ago. I always have a soft spot for the early days before they were signed. That was a magic time that I just wish had been...
OhJonas: It's got that innocence.
Karl: Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, There was stuff that I would never... It's like anything. You look back and like, “Oh man, I'm sure we need to go back to when I was whatever age.” But then you think, "Oh wait a minute though, I really don't want to do that again. And I don't want that to happen again.” It's like that for all the eras. I don't know. I know where the most confusion and pain was, but there was only a few times where it felt like that. Most of the time it was pretty rad.
OhJonas: When did you think it was just like things are falling apart?
Karl: I remember somewhere in the Pinkerton Tour there was a weird meltdown. It was related to when we saw that AP, that old AP article. Where-
OhJonas: Where they kinda talk about Rivers?
Karl: Yeah. That was kind of a dark period. It was a bummer. Right around The Good Life video shoot. That whole scratch of time. Spring 97 basically was rough. And then there was a period right in the middle of The Green Album stuff that was pretty dark. And it wasn't necessarily the Mikey thing. It was more like it was really hard to communicate with Rivers. Extra hard. To a point where nobody really knew where they stood. There was no sense of group camaraderie. It was kind of like a strange feeling. I didn't dig that either. Those two I'd probably single out as like nadirs.
OhJonas: Yeah. Is there... I know you weren't in with Red, but is there a producer that you just felt Weezer worked best with? So I guess Rick Rubin, themselves or Ric Ocasek.
Karl: Damn, that's tough. Ric Ocasek was perfect for what they did when they used him. And I think Rick Rubin was initially perfect.
OhJonas: Kind of saved the band, but then-
OhJonas: Did you think his involvement ever got too much?
Karl: No. I think it was all positive in that sense. In a sense, I think they work best alone if they're confident about what they're doing. But now we're going into this new thing with Jacknife and they're all stoked on him now. Cuz it was so easy to work with him. I think they hadn't had a producer where it was just like, he knows what he's doing musically and he's easy to work with. Like Rick is so easy to work with but It's all this intuitive kind of thing. Ric Ocasek is technically right on the ball. He knows exactly how to make a record. And he's funny. But you don't get a sense of like... He is friendly. He's a really sweet guy. But you don't get a sense of like, you're with him. It's kind of like “We've come together and now I'm going to go back to my hotel and you guys can go back to your hotel.” I don't know. I'm just speaking from my own experience. But they may have never found the right combination. I think in The Red Album, when they were working kind of alone, Rick was sort of in the background. Not in touch but not part of it. That might have been their best. Cuz when I was there for a couple of weeks, it felt super creative. Everything was flowing right. Really optimistic, really positive. They were in charge of their ship. They know exactly what they're doing. That felt like the most productive I'd seen them.
OhJonas: Do you think that's carrying on to Album 7?
Karl: Well, they're going to be working with Jacknife but it's not too different because Jacknife is kind of on the same wavelength as them. And they all want to work quickly. They don't want to bog down. So it could be really cool.
OhJonas: I know that you can't really speak about much and nothing is really solidified for Album 7 yet. But are they looking at all new material or is there anything that didn't make Red they want to go back to?
Karl: I've heard talk of both. There's talk of everybody bringing in new songs but there's also talk of, “oh, there's all these great songs that we didn't- we never finished”.
OhJonas: Piece of the Pie.
Karl: I'll be putting in my suggestions if they ask for them.
OhJonas: I was going to ask about that too. You sat out for album 6 for the most part. Do you think you'd do that for Album 7?
Karl: Well, I'm going to be there for the beginning of it because it's starting in November and I'll be in town for that. And they don't know if they're going to finish it in this first session, which is going to go into probably around New Year's or maybe February or something like that. And I won't be there for that part of it. I'm going to be back east for the holidays. So it might actually be kind of cool because I actually don't think I should be there for the whole thing anymore. Unless something changes, it felt like maybe I should have been there a little more on the sixth one because I was only there for maybe three weeks total out of the whole thing. And that was like the whole thing was months and months and months. But I don't think I should be there for the majority of the time. I don't think it's right. Not because my opinion isn't valued. Not because it's a bummer. It's just there's a sense when I'm there that “Ok you're being documented.” It's almost like sometimes when nobody's paying attention is when all the inspiration happens. That's what I've seen.
OhJonas: Would you ever look at another VCD?
Karl: Oh yeah. It's not been talked about officially but there's certainly enough boat loads of material to go on it. Both since then and before, the old days. There's tons more stuff.
OhJonas: Would you be interested in a big Weezer box set?
Karl: There's certainly the material and the quality to do it. If everybody agreed to it and it was all cool. I mean my vote is yes. I don't know what else to say about it.
OhJonas: Rivers is working on his recollection of Weezer's formation. Have you ever considered making your own kind of biography of the band?
Karl: I've thought about it a little and it would be not so much a detailed written thing the way his is but more like a collection of memories. Not necessarily just for me either. And as much visual imagery as possible. As opposed to the almost meticulous diary and inner thoughts kind of thing that Rivers is writing. It would be more like stories and anecdotes and pictures and a collection like that.
OhJonas: That’d be awesome. What do you consider Karlophone's crowning achievements?
Karl: There's none yet.
OhJonas: Aw, come on!
Karl: But I like my last album. I like the one with the green cover.
OhJonas: It's your favorite?
Karl: Yeah, definitely. The first one is no good compared to that one in my opinion. There's a couple good songs in The first one I think kind of but the second one I was way happier with the second one. I just hope I can make something better for the third one.
OhJonas: Have you started on that at all?
Karl: A little bit. Just a little bit. I haven't had time. I’ve literally haven’t had time. I've got tons and tons of material and no time to organize anything and write stuff. But lots of ideas. Like notebooks full of ideas.
OhJonas: Do you ever write alternative music or are you just looking at sampling and hip hop?
Karl: Well the funny thing is that I think all my influence comes from alternative music and being around Weezer and stuff. If you think about my songs in terms of structure, they're kind of like pop songs because that's the way they flow. It's not like, “Oh let's just have a 40 minute trance out.” I'm not into that. I want parts. Song parts. Y’know “A, B, here's the bridge. Back to A. Sort of the solo.” You know what I mean? So I think that way even though the sound I want is a more hip hop kind of, whatever you want to call it thing, y’know?
OhJonas: It really doesn't fit into a genre.
Karl: It's good.
OhJonas: It is good. It's unique.
OhJonas: Have you and Rivers ever collaborated on anything?
Karl: The short answer is yes but the long answer is not significantly. There's a couple early things back in the old days that you may have known about in the Recording History. But we've never sat down. Rivers has mentioned “We should do something sometimes.” That's come up on occasion. And the dynamic of how to do that has never been really broached as a subject. I have a hard enough time collaborating with anybody really to be honest. I just go into my zone. When I sent stuff to Pat for him to do that one B-side of mine. I don't know if you know about that one, the “If You Listen” song? He did the guitar and he reworked that song significantly. And he's like, “Please send me more stuff. I love doing that.” A lot of people flip that 45 over and play that song instead because they think it's better. I'm like, “Okay, maybe that's what I should be doing.”
OhJonas: Is that on your website? That 45?
Karl: I can't remember. I think it's on the MySpace. I mean the 45 is for sale, I would have given you one if I had any here.
OhJonas: No dude, I’d pay for it.
Karl: It's on the website. He was credited as Franklin Mint. He did the B-side for that 45 he did a couple years ago.
OhJonas: That's right.
Karl: So that was a collaboration but it was kinda like I just sent him the files and then sent that back. I'm like, “Cool! We're done!” I don't know how it would work with Rivers. It would be fun though. It would be fun to try.
OhJonas: Who do you think is the greatest songwriter of all time?
Karl: Geez.
OhJonas: Maybe a few of them.
Karl: Oh I don't know.
OhJonas: Who are you into most right now then?
Karl: That's another hard question. I mean there's some… Damn. That's tough. “All time songwriters”... I mean there's some obvious names that I kinda can't ignore. It's not necessarily like I love all their material but you can't discount Brian Wilson. You can't discount Burt Bacharach. You can't discount John Lennon and McCartney. As far as pop songwriting, those three right there, you've covered a lot of your bases. As far as, who's going to really come close to those guys? Not too many. But then there's the whole soul side of it. I mean Curtis Mayfield. There's so many people that just laid down incredible tracks. Such good writing. I don't really count James Brown as a songwriter even though he did. He was more like a band leader that encouraged a groove and then came up with bizarre scat lyrics over it. An incredible performer but I can't call those like...
OhJonas: It's not like composition.
Karl: Yeah, it was more like “Here's a new kind of rhythm that nobody's ever heard before.” Which I count as very important but that's not really a songwriting part of songwriting in that sense. You stand at like the piano going “Hmm, this chord, no, this chord.” Y’know it's not like that. So maybe those guys will be my names. And as for today? Who I like right now? I like so many stupid things. Like, I'm digging that stupid song by MIA. What's Your Face?, Paper Plate song. I'm digging that song. I can't help it. It's got the Clash song- It's got the Clash in it. Who am I into? Pat turned me onto The Bird and the Bee. I dig that record. I just bought Vampire Weekend but I haven't listened to it yet. Which is kind of sad. But I heard it was good. I like some of My Morning Jacket. I definitely like Band of Horses a lot. I still like The Shins. All that kind of business. But I'm always exploring the past. 90% of what I listen to is old. At least 90%. I'm always buying old records, checking old stuff out. The more obscure the better. Like literally. I'm just like, “What's this? It's on EBC? I'm buying it!”
OhJonas: When you do that, are you looking for new music to enjoy? But are you also looking for samples?
Karl: Both. Definitely both. The best record is one that's got some killer songs on it. But also some stuff that's like, “I gotta sample that!” It's a slam dunk if I hear that. I'm like, “Oop, I got it. I don't care what it costs.”
OhJonas: What are your favorite albums right now? All Time?
Karl: Damn dude, I don't know… What do I even say to that… Well, All Time. I always have to count The Clash's albums. They always destroy me. I listen to them so many times. Between 13 and 18. I can't even- Thousands of times. Too many times. So they're just in my bloodstream. There's a lot of albums I love, but then I realize I love some songs on it. As opposed to just playing it through. So I'm trying to think of some of the records that are: “I can just play it through and it's all good.” I think the Band of Horses did that with both their albums. I can play them both through and really dig it. Going back to old, of course the first- the big DJ Shadow record, I listened to that a billion times. It's a great record from start to finish. It really has a whole sense of journey. It really feels like you're going somewhere with that record. Geez. You know what I dug? I dug Jay Z's interpretations of American Gangster. Cuz I thought he had really fallen off with the last record before that. And then I was like, “This record’s good.” I was playing it all the way through. Another one I'm playing all the way through is the soundtrack to Metalocalypse.
OhJonas: Not heard of that.
Karl: It's on Adult Swim on Cartoon Network. And It's about the Death Metal band. And they put out a soundtrack. They also put it out on a picture disc LP. So it's all this blood and guts on it and stuff. But, I'm like, whoever's writing these songs knows what they're doing. Cuz these are like, catchy, it's not just noise. I played it through and I'm like, “I'm at the end of the record already. That was good!” But it's a hilarious show. You've got to watch it. You'll die laughing.
OhJonas: Do you prefer vinyl to CD or?
Karl: Yeah, yeah, whenever possible. The only problem is on the road when you buy vinyl you can't listen to it.
OhJonas: Yeah.
Karl: Well, actually we have the record player on stage now so I could pull that out
OhJonas: Does it get damaged?
Karl: It's trashed, dude. It’s trash, It's a daily repair session.
OhJonas: This might be kind of a hefty question, but if you had to pick a favorite song from like, before Weezer, and during Blue and Pink, the hiatus
Karl: Oh man. Okay, early on. I'll go through the albums first cuz that's easier. Probably Blue might be like Holiday. Pinkerton might be like Falling For You. Hiatus... I don't know. All that Homie stuff, like I said, I dig a lot of those songs. I'm not sure if I could really pick one out and say “That's the one.” With Green, I think... Damn. Probably Smile or that other slow one near the end. What the hell is that one called?
OhJonas: Simple Page- Glorious Day?
Karl: Yeah, Glorious Day is pretty cool. Maladroit. I'd go for Slob because I've liked that since 2000. Make Believe. Maybe Damage in Your Heart? And the new one is tough cuz I like a lot of it. Maybe Dreamin' or The Greatest Man. It's tough to pick out stuff from the billions of demos, but you know I like Superfriend. There's like a handful of things that are super cool. Maybe a great early song that nobody has ever heard yet is... What the hell is it called? Oh, I've Thrown It All Away. That's a super cool early demo.
OhJonas: What's that one like? Is it soft?
Karl: Yeah, it's so cool. I don't know how to explain it.
OhJonas: Did Pat help write that? Because I was looking at the Recording History the other day and it made it…
Karl: Well, maybe. I can't remember anymore, (???) question. So, I don't know. Without looking at lists, it's hard to pick things out. But those are some answers for you.
OhJonas: And then Waylon wanted me to ask, how much footage of the Sound City Cat do you have?
Karl: The Sound City what?
OhJonas: The Sound City cat.
Karl: Oh! Probably a total of like a minute or two. I would guess.
OhJonas: That was for Waylon
Karl: That's a great cat.
OhJonas: In closing, is there anything that you would want to tell Weezer fans right now?
Karl: I'd thank them for their patience cuz often they expect a high level of information and they don't always get it. I'd ask them to trust that we know what we're doing and to forgive things that they don't like. And know that the band is probably more so than ever excited to work. Looking forward to the future, artistically. Everybody wants to keep making music and keep making records and just keep going. And that's an honest assessment of the vibe. Day to day there may be confusion. Like, “Oh why did Brian say this? God damn it.” Stupid little things. But the overall vibe is like, “Let's keep making records and keep writing songs.” It's a really positive feeling right now.
OhJonas: Is there anything that you want to tell Karlophone fans?
Karl: I wish there were more of you, but I thank you for being one if you are. And I will make a third CD. And as soon as I have anything I can preview on MySpace, I'll put it up for you to listen to it. I'm still going. I'm a very persistent dude, so there may not be much evidence of it on the web right now, but I'm going to keep making more stuff.
OhJonas: Final question. Are you looking for some saction? You don't have to answer that.
Karl: Yeah, I am, I'll just say what I’ve (???), Who isn't?
OhJonas: We’re all looking for saction.
Karl: Who is not looking for saction?
OhJonas: It's impossible to find though.
Karl: You're an idiot if you're not looking for saction.
OhJonas: Thank you so much.
Karl: You're welcome!
External links
- "Weezerpedia Karl Koch Interview, 10/7/08 in SLC, Utah" on Apple Podcasts