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Reworked song template 11/28/2020
With all these demos pouring in, it just dawned on me that it could be cool to have a "Reworked songs" template - a clean graphic-looking thing that could trace the development of, say "Burning Sun" into "Weekend Girl" into "Weekend Woman." We had previously had some debate over whether demo'ed versions of songs deserved separate pages from their originals (i.e. "Mrs. Young" and "Please Let That Be You"), but I feel like we're seeing now that there are plenty of cases that warrant separate pages. Connecting them all would be cool! What do we think? --MyNameIsJason (talk) 08:51, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
I definitely agree there ought to be some visually-pleasing way to indicate where a song exists in its "family tree" so to speak, but I'm not sure what that would look like. Do you have anything in mind?
Relatedly, do you have any thoughts re: the rules around when a song gets its own page vs. when it's rolled into another one? My current criteria has been that they should be separate if they are substantially lyrically distinct (ie "California"/"Barcelona" or "So Low"/"Mansion of Cardboard") except in cases where the title remains the same (ie, "The Victor" had completely different lyrics every time but kept the same name) or in cases where a song is translated into a different language (ie. "Kimi to futari de"/"Pick U Up". Japanese songs are already kind of a can-of-worms as a non-Japanese speaker). These have been my criteria, but I don't want to just impose it unilaterally without discussing it first haha. And we're already kind of encountering edge cases with the latest outpouring of demos ("Weekend Girl" exists on the continuum of "Burning Sun" and "Weekend Woman" but isn't quite either, for example). --HMC (talk) 23:18, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
- Let's see - from what you've just said, I feel like there won't be any hard and fast "if x, then they deserve two different pages" rules, but we should probably consider any of the following when deciding:
- lyric changes
- song title changes (if there is a hard and fast rule this seems to be it, just based on how Cuomo himself classifies stuff. But, again, it doesn't work 100% of the time. For example, depending on how "Weekend Girl" sounds, I feel like it might be reasonably contained w/in the "Weekend Woman" page)
- long gaps between when the songs were worked on
- big re-arrangements of a song
- being played by different bands / sung by different people
- a song is translated
- when only a portion of a song is reused in another completely different song (this is perhaps the most obvious one - Since You Came Around and Jacked Up are clearly two different songs)
- I think the cleanest answer being we'd look for a compelling mix of any of these things, with a new song title being the most important factor. Like the massive changes in arrangements of all our versions of Can't Stop Partying don't feel like they warrant separate pages, given the short time period over which the changes were made, the fact that the lyrics remained mostly intact and the title didn't change at all. But a rearrangement of the music of "She Who Is Militant," combined with a new song title, feels like it does warrant a new page in "All I Want To Do." This is despite the lyrics being mostly unchanged. My Brain provides the best example, I think. The arrangements, lyrical changes, and even title changes between all those Green-era versions don't feel like they warrant separate pages, right? But Losing My Mind is very very clearly a different song.
- I'm getting a bit ramble-y here, but I just had two other ideas. I just made Template:Split for any possible disputes that may come up. It would also be cool to see if we can find a way to have collapsible lyrics sections for songs with multiple lyric rewrites. Whatever we deem the "main" lyrics (the first draft of lyrics? the last draft?) being displayed fully, and then other sections appearing when someone clicks on them. I'm not saying any of this to assign it to anyone as homework, just thinking out loud! --MyNameIsJason (talk) 00:33, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Main page redesign 08/7/2020
See Talk:Main Page and image below (very roughly thrown together).